Piano and Music Videos

Can playing successive, heavy chord clusters detune a piano?

I’ve heard that it can, but find it hard to believe that chord clusters could cause more problems than something like a Rachmaninoff or Liszt Etude.

Thank you,
Julie

It may seem amazing that playing chord clusters could de-tune a piano! However, it isn’t the particular sonorities that cause the detuning, it is the sheer force of sound that can flex the soundboard, thereby altering string tension slightly. In fact, one technique that concert level tuners will sometimes employ is after finishing the tuning of a piano, closing it, putting down the sustain pedal and playing as many keys as possible with the arms on the keyboard to generate huge sound. This will help to hasten the de-tuning of strings that may not be solidly set. The tuner can then re-tune the offending notes and have a piano that may endure the strength of a concert pianist’s performance without having the piano go out of tune quite as much since the most susceptible notes have already been corrected.

Hello Mr. Estrin,

Love your youtube channel! Thanks for the tour of those fabulous pieces of history. I have a few favorites.

Quick question. I have a near 100-year-old Nordheimer upright piano and I just adore the sound from it but the piano frankly looks like it was beaten with an ugly stick. I have some woodworking skills and was considering stripping off the old cracked glaze and spraying on a colored high gloss latex paint for some color cause it couldn’t look much worse than it does now. I know where the soundboard is so if spray all the other non-moving cabinet will this ruin my piano’s sound? I will not go anywhere near the soundboard.

Thanks for any advice you may be able to offer.

Sincerely,

Brandt

So glad you appreciate my videos! As for the piano, you shouldn’t underestimate the massive amounts of work it takes refinishing a piano. If a had a nickel for every half refinished upright piano I have seen, I could probably buy a nice Steinway! The piano has to be disassembled to a large extent. It shouldn’t hurt the instrument if it is done correctly.

Good luck!

Hi Robert,

Where are the steps and half steps in the major scale?

I mean, why is the half step between the 3rd and 4th notes (E and F) and not between 4th and 5th, or 5ht and 6th…?

Ricardo

Ricardo,

This is a great question. In fact, centuries ago the half steps were found in different places. These were called modes. Basically, if you start a scale on different notes, the half-steps will occur in different places. Think of playing the white keys starting on D and ending on D instead of going from C to C. Instead of having half-steps between the 3rd-4th and 7th-8th notes, as in a major scale, they would be between the 2nd-3rd and 6th-7th notes creating what is called the Dorian mode. You can start modes on any scale degree creating different modes.

Eventually, the major/minor tonality caught on. One reason for this is the power of the raised 7th. While the minor scale is actually a version of the Aeolian mode (which are the notes starting on the 6th note of the major scale) it is most often found in 2 altered forms, the harmonic minor (which has a raised 7th) and the melodic minor (which has a raised 6th and 7th). What is so powerful about major/minor tonality is that some tones are stronger than others. There are active tones which must resolve to restive tones. Just try playing a slow major scale ascending and stop on the 7th note. You will feel incredibly compelled to play the last note. That is the power of tonality!

Hi Robert;
I have a 7 foot Steinway piano. During these terribly cold months, it has been going out of tune.

I have a damp chaser. Would a microfiber blanket be safe to cover the INSIDE of the piano?

Also, what temperature should my gas heater be kept at night?

please let me know. I read your e-mails; they are very helpful.

Thanks,
Mary

Mary,

Your piano will keep its tuning best in a stable environment. The rule of thumb is if the piano is sitting in a place you would be comfortable sitting day and night, your piano will probably be fine. A string covering blanket could be helpful. However, the underside of the soundboard will still be exposed. Fluctuations of temperature from the 60’s to 70’s shouldn’t present problems. Avoid direct sunlight on the soundboard. This can change the tuning rapidly.

I live in the mountains of Big Bear Lake, California where the relative humidity is often in the single digit to no more than 20% or 30%. What are the risks of keeping a piano in this type of climate? Do you have any suggestions to help with any potential damage caused by the climate?
– Kyle

You bring up an excellent point. Extreme dryness can also present major problems for pianos. The high desert in California, as well as parts of Arizona, can experience single digit humidity! The real danger is in drying out the soundboard. Cracks can develop, or hairline cracks which present no problem in most parts of the country can open up and cause buzzing. Other wood joints can also potentially suffer particularly if the piano was previously in a humid environment and gets moved to an extremely dry environment. So, a moderate humidity level is important for the longevity of pianos. You can mitigate the effects of weather in a number of ways which I described in my humidity video except in reverse.

– Buy and install a humidifier and make sure that you keep all the windows closed.

– Put a large, shallow pan of water underneath your piano.

– Install a Dampp-Chaser humidification system.

Be sure there are no heating vents blowing up at the soundboard of your piano (or behind an upright piano) no matter where you live. The key to providing the right environment for your piano is, if you would be comfortable sitting in the room where the piano is day and night, then your piano will probably be O.K. However, you may check the humidity level of your home and make adjustments if necessary with the previously described techniques.

I’m wondering if you have ever done a video on the performance practice of JS Bach ornaments. I know the specific ornaments like mordent and trill, etc but was wondering if you’ve weighed in on where and when to use them. My understanding is performers could add ornaments like spice, whenever they wished. It’s considered a type of improvisation in a sense. Please advise if you’ve made a video or have a link to someone else that has covered this online.

Thanks,
Dana

Ornamentation is a great subject for a video! It is also extremely challenging. The fact is, ideas about what is authentic Baroque ornamentation goes in and out of style through the ages. What was considered authentic practice today is different from what was considered appropriate 30 years ago, and different again earlier in the century. On top of that, there are varying ideas today. In my opinion, it’s impossible to really know for sure what the performance practices were hundreds of years ago. However, there are accepted norms in performance and deviating from them in a significant way raises attention to the ornamentation to a high degree. I still believe that there is a wide range of creative license in ornamentation, and you are right that it can be a form of improvisation.

Much Baroque music was improvised beyond just ornamentation. The trio sonata was often written in figured bass, a lead sheet type of form where the keyboard and continuo parts were realized by the performers, not scored note for note. So, there is a good reason to support the idea of freedom with ornamentation. The bottom line is to do what works and sounds musical. Different performers have unique ideas as to what that may be, but when the ornamentation supports the music, that is what is ultimately important. As for historical accuracy, we may never know for sure.

Here is a question about huge bass from a 158 Sauter.. Why and how can a super large high tension Base produce a better base than many 9 foot? It has more clarity and more vibrations and it is not duplex (per Ulrich Sauter)

One theory is that the low end has so much power that you bring into the tone short vibrations from the very heavy wires despite being padded.

What I found was an interesting tonal quality not found on my Mason and Hamlin upright. As you stated before sometimes the piano gets better as it gets older. I also recall your love of the grand. The piano has worked very well for our small and very hard working Chamber Music group..

Best Regards,
Bruce

There are many mysteries to pianos. One really interesting fact is that even the same make and model of piano, new or from the same vintage can have dramatically different qualities. It’s important to remember that pianos produce their sound from wood and no two trees are alike! Add in the variance of human labor and those factors alone are a big deal. Now, take scale design. You would think that a 9-foot piano would have a bigger bass than a smaller piano. But as you can attest, that isn’t always the case. Think of some small speaker systems that utilize creative technologies for getting huge bass out of a relatively small package. There are so many variables in design as well as in the preparation of a piano. Ultimately, your ears tell the whole story.

You might have heard the term scale design used before and wondered exactly what it is. Well, the answer has a number of parts and can actually become fairly complex. I’ll do my best to explain exactly what it means and how you can spot the differences on your piano and others.

Scale design is something that is unique to each piano. It involves not only one aspect but the entire design of a piano in regards to how it produces tone. If you look inside a piano, you will notice that there are varying lengths of strings; the treble strings are shortest and then gradually get longer as you progress down to the bass strings.

Each piano actually has a slightly different geometry in how these strings get longer. Also, the strings have different diameters – the strings at the treble register are the thinnest and the strings along the bass register are the thickest. Some pianos will actually use what is called a high tension scale – which means that the strings are thicker but will have to be pulled with more tension in order to create the same pitch. Other pianos will have a low tension scale which is basically the opposite of high tension – the strings are thinner and require less tension. Is one better than the other? Not necessarily – these are just two different methods of achieving the desired tone.

This is not all when it comes to scale design; this is just the beginning!

Once you progress to the lower register of the piano you have copper wound strings. Where the copper wound strings begin is again part of the scale design of a piano. Believe it or not, the difference in where these copper strings start is different not only with different brands of pianos but in the different models of one manufacturer. For example, on the Steinway M I am using in this video, the copper strings start slightly before the register break.

What is a register break? This brings us to another important aspect of scale design. You probably notice that on your piano there is a section in which cross stringing occurs – where strings are crossed over one another; this happens in the lower register. The point at which the strings begin to cross over is called the register break.

Believe it or not, even the winding of the strings has something to do with scale design. Sometimes the copper wound strings start with the double strings and in the lower register become single wound. Other times there are even triple wound strings in the upper bass area as in my Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand.

Another aspect of scaling is where the string is actually hit by the hammer. If you look at the action of your piano you will notice that the hammers strike the strings at specific points. This is done very deliberately to produce a certain tone. The exact point at which the strings are hit has a dramatic effect upon piano tone. If you have ever played guitar, you notice the different tones you get when plucking strings at different points from the bridge. It is the same with pianos.

There are other technologies when it comes to scale design as well. The non-speaking part of the string – the part beyond where the hammer strikes – can also have something to do with scale design. Some pianos have what is called duplex scaling. This allows the strings to resonate freely without muting them at these points – producing musically useful overtones. Other pianos have felt that will dampen the sound at these points because they are not designed to have them produce an additional tone. Is one better than the other? Again, not necessarily; while duplex scaling can enhance tone, it is not the only way that piano designers can achieve great results.

Another aspect of scale design is where the bridges are placed along the soundboard. This is again something that is very important in producing a certain tone in a piano. In fact, in the earlier pianos before cross stringing emerged, the bridges were placed along the edge of the soundboard. Modern pianos with cross stringing achieve better tone by having the bridges more centrally located on the soundboard.

The bottom line when it comes to scale design is what it sounds like. Sometimes pianos designed by computers are “perfect” in the mathematical sense but don’t necessarily offer beauty or warmth of tone that the slight imperfections may provide. This is truly part science and part art, but what’s most important is how the piano sounds and feels to you.

We are currently looking for a piano for our church service use. We don’t have very high budget so we are currently looking at used pianos. We have come across the following model and it would be great if Bob could provide expert advice on which one is the better one:

– Yamaha MC10A
– Weinbach serial number 149862

Thank you Bob

Both Yamaha and Weinbach make good quality instruments. From the serial number, you can determine that the Weinbach was manufactured in the Czech Republic before it was acquired by Petrof. Since you don’t have the model number of the Weinbach, I will assume these are both similar style upright pianos. In that case, the better piano is the one that is in better condition. There are many factors that come into play.

You can determine how much use the pianos have had by looking at the grooves on the hammers. Deeper grooves mean the piano has had more use. The hammers also may have been filed. Look at how much felt is left particularly on the highest notes of the piano. Also, you can wiggle the keys back and forth. If there is a lot of play or worse yet clicking sounds, this indicates that the piano has been played substantially.

Another important factor is the environment the piano has been subjected to. An extremely dry or humid environment can damage a piano. Definitely look on the back of the piano at the soundboard for detached ribs, warping, or open cracks. (Tight, hairline cracks are not a concern.) Look for rust or corrosion on the strings. Yellowing of felt parts (hammers and dampers) also indicates parts that are more weather-worn.

It is a mistake buying a piano you think will be fundamentally different after it has been serviced. Unless you have vast experience with pianos, you would be taking a tremendous risk. Ultimately, how the piano sounds and feels is paramount since this is probably what is most important to you.