Tag Archives: used pianos

When is it Time for a New Piano?

This is a question I get all the time; almost every day! There are really two factors involved in this question: The condition of the piano and the ability of the player. I’m going to cover both of these topics for you.

If you have a piano that you think might be experiencing some problems, you have to assess the situation carefully and make sure you’re not throwing good money after bad. Problems that arise in pianos differ immensely based on the type of piano you own.

If you have an older (10 or more years) cheaper Asian production piano that is experiencing issues, it might be time to consider buying a new piano. Otherwise, you might end up costing yourself a lot of money in ongoing repairs. These pianos are built with a limited lifespan; they won’t last forever and eventually you will need to upgrade if you are a serious player.

If you have a higher quality piano, many times you can get repairs or work done that will prolong its life for generations. In some cases – specifically when it comes to soundboard issues – you might be stuck having to pay thousands of dollars for a rebuild. If you keep your piano in a nice climate, you close the lid at night (particularly if windows are open) and you generally maintain it well, you probably won’t run into major problems for quite a while depending upon how much you play. If you have an older piano that has been handed down through your family, it will probably require some work at some point.

Small repairs with the action or strings require some expense but they are nothing compared to the cost of rebuilding a piano. If you are looking at a bill in the tens of thousands of dollars – or even a few thousand dollars – it might be time to consider buying yourself another piano depending upon the level of the instrument. Many dealers will even let you trade in an existing piano toward the cost of a new one. It’s a great idea to consult a piano technician you trust and ask them honestly if it’s worth putting money into your piano or just buying a new one. For example, in a vertical piano the hammers travel sideways, so they don’t have the benefit of gravity for repetition like grands do. So eventually you will progress to the point where you can play faster than the piano will respond. When you advance even further as a player you will want something larger than a baby grand because the tone develops differently and the keys are longer (behind the fall board) giving a more uniform feel when playing black keys and between black keys close to the fall board.

Thanks again for joining me Robert Estrin Robert@LivingPianos.com (949) 244-3729

Is Teflon on Steinway Pianos Bad? Teflon and Steinway Pianos

This is probably one of the most fiercely debated topics regarding Steinway pianos. There is a ton of misinformation online as well as varying degrees of opinions. Not everyone is going to agree on this topic, but I will share my perspective from a lifetime with Steinway pianos. So let’s dive right into this hotly contested debate, is Teflon on Steinway Pianos bad?

In 1972 Steinway & Sons was sold to CBS and they owned the company until 1985. At some time during this period in Steinway’s history, the felt parts of the action were replaced with Teflon. Eventually, they abandoned this practice and went back to felt – not without some public outcry. Today, some people will see older Steinway pianos with Teflon and become adamant about replacing it, but is it really such a big problem?

There is no simple yes or no answer to this question. Teflon has many different characteristics then felt and one of the reasons Steinway decided to use it was that it is much more durable and robust then felt. One of the big problems Steinway ran into with Teflon is that many technicians didn’t know how to work with it. The vast majority of the world’s actions were built with felt and replacing it with a new material created some confusion. Unless a technician is familiar with Steinway Teflon actions, they might not be able to adjust it properly.

If you have a Steinway piano with Teflon in it and it’s in good shape, all you need is a good technician who can maintain it. There is really no reason to replace the Teflon if you have no problems. Now, there are cases where you will have to replace Teflon.

Teflon does cause some unwanted problems and if you are experiencing any of these you will need to get it replaced. Telfon is rigid but wood is susceptible to expanding and contracting with the weather. If you put a Steinway piano with Teflon in an extreme environment with wild swings in temperature – from dry to humid and from hot to cold – it’s possible the wood could crack. This can cause unwanted noises that could be created by the spaces between the Teflon bushings and the wood. This is what gave Teflon a very bad reputation; it’s not made for extreme environments.

If you live in a stable environment, you probably won’t have any negative issues with Teflon You will probably be fine as long as you have a properly trained technician.

If you feel that you want to replace the Teflon in your action, you can. If you have any concerns or qualms about it and you have the money, you should simply do what makes you happy. Does it need to be replaced? Unless you live in an extreme environment, the Teflon is old, or you can’t find the right technician, probably not. I personally don’t have any problems with Teflon parts but that’s my opinion and I’m sure there are plenty of varying viewpoints.

Thanks again for joining me Robert Estrin Robert@LivingPianos.com (949) 244-3729

Can You Still Buy Pianos with Real Ivory Keys?

This is an incredibly involved and complex subject that we will continue to reflect upon. The short answer to this question is no, you can’t buy new pianos with ivory keys anymore. They have been outlawed on new pianos since the 1970s in the United States although some European manufacturers continued to offer ivory keys on select pianos into the 1980’s.

Now if you have a piano with ivory keys manufactured before the ban of ivory there are still issues. Selling a piano within the same country will most likely not be a problem for you yet (depending on your local laws). However, if you decide to move out of the country and you want to bring your piano with you it’s a risky proposition. If customs officials find that you are trying to ship a piano out of the country with ivory keys, they can impound the piano and you may have great difficulty rectifying the situation. Generally, you can’t ship a piano to another country with ivory keys unless you can prove the piano to be over 100 years.

Now in the United States, we are facing some legislation that may further limit the selling of ivory. The department of fish and wildlife is proposing new laws that would ban the transporting of ivory from state to state on pianos or anything else! So, if you own a piano with ivory keys, or a guitar with ivory inlays, a violin bow containing some ivory or anything else containing ivory, it will become illegal to transport it across state lines. There have actually been cases of orchestras going overseas where their bows have been confiscated by customs officials for containing ivory (and these can be some extremely expensive bows).

If this law comes to fruition it would mean that you won’t even be able to move your piano to a different state if it contains ivory keys. This is a huge problem for a lot of people and it can be a very expensive proposition to have to replace your piano keys simply because they contain ivory. There have been raids of antique auctions and stores where officials have taken massive quantities of old jewelry, artwork, and other objects that contain old ivory. In China, they have even destroyed a large number of irreplaceable pieces of art in their quest to stop the trade of ivory. This is a case of good intentions gone awry. The illegal trade of ivory is a booming industry and the attempt to stop this is by confiscating all ivory and making it illegal to transport at all. The slaying of elephants for new ivory is barbaric and it really is a problem – specifically in the domestic Chinese market. The American market is not as big in illegal ivory but it has not stopped officials from creating new laws to tightly enforce the trade and transport of ivory – no matter how old it is.

The sentiment of these proposed laws is in the right place but the practice is illogical. To ban the sale or transport of a piano with ivory keys – where the elephant died almost 100 years ago – seems pointless. If you feel strongly about this the only way to stop it is to write to your local officials and voice your concerns. There are many people who deal in vintage instruments, art and jewelry containing ivory watching the progress of legislation very closely.

Is it possible to remove the ivory from pianos and replace them with plastic? Yes; but not without some significant work. Ivory keys are typically thinner than plastic so the wood on the keys might need to be filed down in order to fit properly and you may be forced to do some key leveling and other work as well. Beyond that, the ivory keys are irreplaceable and it would be a shame to have to remove them long after the elephants died. Hopefully, there is an effective way to stop the slaughter of elephants without impacting the sale, trade, and transport of old objects containing ivory.

If you have any questions or comments about ivory keys on pianos please contact me directly Robert Estrin Robert@LivingPianos.com (949) 244-3729

What are Stencil Pianos?

You may have heard this term before, but you might not know what it means. It is a very important thing to understand when you are looking at pianos.

Perhaps you have visited a piano store and seen lots of American names on pianos but few – if any – are what they appear to be. Many of them are undoubtedly stencil pianos.

The business of stencil pianos goes way back. In fact, many of the leading piano companies used to have second lines of pianos called OEM pianos (Original Equipment Manufacturer) that they sold to piano stores. The stores would then put their own brand names on the pianos.

Today, stencil pianos have become a huge part of the piano industry. With only 2 major piano manufacturers left in the United States (Steinway and Mason & Hamlin) and 1 smaller company (Charles Walther), there are only about 2,000 pianos manufactured in the United States every year.

However, if you walk into a store you will probably see dozens of American piano manufacturer names on the pianos. These are almost all stencil pianos and they are mostly produced in China and Indonesia (and some in Korea). The pianos are bought from the manufacturer and a familiar name is put on the piano in order to make customers more comfortable.

For example, You might see the Baldwin name on a new piano in a store. However, when Gibson bought the Baldwin piano company a few years ago, they shut down the American piano plant. They then bought the Dongbei Piano factory in China. Ever since they have been importing these pianos from China and putting the Baldwin name on the front of them. So for about 1/5 of the cost of an actual American made Baldwin piano you can own a new Chinese “Baldwin” which looks pretty much the same.

However, even though the pianos might look the same, they are far from the same piano. These pianos manufactured in China and Indonesia are good choices if the piano is mostly for furniture or for the casual player. But they won’t hold up well with rigorous use and would rarely get passed down from generation to generation.

Many piano dealers will use certain techniques to market these stencil pianos and make them seem like there is something special about them. For example, Steinway has done an excellent job of marketing their stencil piano brands – Essex and Boston. Essex is a Chinese piano made by Pearl River and Boston is an OEM piano sold to Steinway but produced by Kawai. The Steinway piano name is so popular and well respected that people will pay thousands of dollars more to buy something with the Steinway name somewhere inside it as opposed to just buying the piano directly from the original manufacturer.

Keep in mind, many experts recommend buying an original manufacturer piano as opposed to a stencil or OEM piano. There are two main reasons for this: one, no manufacturer would ever sell a better product to a competitor than they sell themselves; two, when it comes to stencil pianos there is always a middleman, so you will be paying more than simply purchasing the piano from the original manufacturer.

Thanks for joining us here at Living Pianos. If you have any questions, comments or suggestions about this video or any topic at all please contact us directly: Info@LivingPianos.com (949) 244-3729

How to Buy a Piano – Spotting Good Action.

There are many things to consider when purchasing a piano. The action is certainly important. The complexity of all of the parts working together in precision is awe inspiring. Interestingly, the action is the one part of a piano that can be restored to like-new condition to the vast majority of pianos. Of course, the level of performance is relative to the quality of the original design and manufacture. Many companies produce first-rate actions.

It is rare to replace an action. When you hear of people utilizing Renner action in a rebuilt piano, they are not putting in a new action, they are replacing all the worn parts. This accomplishes exactly the same results, but rarely do keys, keyframe and the basic structure deteriorate at all. (However, it could be possible with water or fire damage.)

The action is comprised of different elements that wear at different rates.

Bushings: The keys pivot on rails in the front and back of each key. Around the rods are felt bushings. In time the felt becomes compacted and there is play in the keys. The front rails can be turned to achieve tighter tolerance since the rails are not round. Eventually the key bushings need to be replaced when there is too much play.

Hammers become worn from hitting the strings. The felt becomes compacted at the point of impact with the strings. They also become somewhat flattened out in time. They can be reshaped with filing and voiced by needling to get uniform tone. Eventually after many filings there is no more felt to work with and the hammers must be replaced.

Hammer shanks and knuckles: Sometimes the joint that the hammer pivots on (the knuckle) becomes worn to the point that the hammer doesn’t hit the strings in exactly the same point each blow. That is when it becomes necessary to replace the knuckles and shanks.

Dampers: Above the strings are the dampers. When the felt becomes hard, noises and inconsistencies in the termination of notes results. Often these problems can be regulated, but there comes a time when optimum results aren’t possible without replacing the felt.

Back check: There is a leather piece that engages the hammer after the key is pressed. If the felt becomes hard, it can be roughed up to avoid excessive noise. If the leather is too hard it must be replaced too avoid action noise.

piano_key_punchings

Felt action rail and key punchings can harden and replacing is desirable.

whippens

Whippen: Now here is where it gets interesting! There are around 100 parts to the action and all the rest of them come pre-assembled in a piece called the whippen. So when rebuilding an action to new condition, there is nothing more to do than what I have listed.

First-rate parts are available from a variety of companies. The important thing is using the right parts that match the original specifications. When this is done, the performance of the action is indistinguishable from a new piano. When you hear of a “New Renner Action”, they don’t actually put in a whole new action, they are using Renner parts to rebuild the action.

Are the newer composite materials utilized in many Asian pianos superior to the traditional wood parts? Here is one clue to the answer to that question. Both Yamaha and Kawai use synthetic materials in their actions. However, their best pianos, Yamaha S series and Shigeru Kawai have all wood actions. In fact, other than Mason & Hamlin which is utilizing the questionable practice of sourcing pre-assembled composite actions and plates from China, no handmade piano uses synthetic materials in their actions!

The fact is, there are aspects to a piano that is fundamental to the quality of the instrument. Even the best action will wear out and need attention over time. But the soundboard, scale design, rim materials, bridge composition, string tension, and plate manufacturing process are intrinsic to the quality of the instrument. These things cannot be improved. So, when looking for a piano as a long-term investment, this is what is most important. That is why a hand-built piano cost more and are more valuable over time. It is also why it is not advisable to rebuild Asian production pianos. There is limited potential for what results are possible. Over time the basic structure of these instruments deteriorates because of the design and materials utilized in manufacturing allowing for the right price for mass marketing.

Robert Estrin
949-244-3729

How to Buy a Piano

Acoustic Versus Digital:

There are benefits to both acoustic and digital pianos. However, if the primary purpose is learning to play the piano, an acoustic piano is best. A digital piano has many features that are useful for other purposes such as working with music software, practicing with headphones, and playing a wide variety of sounds. But the piano action of an acoustic piano has nearly 100 parts for each key which provides a much higher level of performance. The subtleties of touch and pedaling enable much more expressive performance on an acoustic piano.

Upright Versus Grand:

An upright might be a good choice if space and budget are limited. However, a grand piano offers superior touch and tone. The vertical motion of hammers in a grand piano offers faster repetition than the horizontal hammer motion of an upright piano. Also, the length of the keys beyond the fall board is greater on a grand piano than on an upright offering better leverage when playing black keys and between black keys. Finally, the sound of a grand piano projects into the room, not into the wall. You may be surprised at how easy it is to place a baby grand piano since it looks good on all sides and can be placed in a corner.

New Versus Used:

If budget is unlimited, buying new can be a good choice. However, it comes with risks. A piano doesn’t reach its full potential until it has had a chance to season and become broken in. So, it is difficult to assess the quality of a new piano until years down the line. Also, if there are any major manufacturing defects in a piano, it will almost always evidence itself within the first few years. Used pianos can offer tremendous value but you must have knowledge in order to make the right buying decision. Factors include the quality of the manufacturer, as well as the history of the specific piano in question.

New: Handmade Versus Production Pianos:

Asian production pianos cost a fraction of hand-made American and European pianos. They are best bought new or nearly new because once they wear out, it doesn’t pay to restore them because they are so inexpensive to begin with. American pianos are a dying breed. We have gone from over 300 manufacturers prior to WWII to 3 companies producing pianos in the United States today. While everyone knows Steinway is a great piano, there are several other piano companies that produced pianos equal to Steinway which can be purchased for a fraction of the cost if you know what to look for. Because this is a vanishing commodity, there is lasting value in these instruments and it can be worthwhile restoring Mason & Hamlin, Knabe, Sohmer, Chickering, Baldwin and many other great American pianos.

Used: Rebuilt Versus Reconditioned:

Unlike people, pianos don’t age unless acted upon by outside forces, namely environment and use. A piano that isn’t played very much and has spent its life in a stable environment in regards to temperature and humidity may only require reconditioning in order to achieve a high level of performance. This is true of some high quality pianos 50 or 75 years old! Other pianos much younger may require rebuilding which involves removal of the strings and plate, and complete restoration of the 10,000 parts throughout the instrument. While this is very costly, the high price of new hand-made pianos makes this investment worthwhile for the right instrument.

Size Matters:

With pianos, all things being equal, bigger is better. This is due to the longer strings and bigger sound board which offer enhanced tone. However, it is important to match the size of the piano to the room. A larger piano produces more volume. So you must assess the acoustics and purpose of the piano to determine what size is appropriate for the space.

Think Long Term:

Unlike almost everything else you buy, you buy a piano only once if you make the right decision. This is because a piano can last a lifetime if it is properly cared for. So you should think beyond your current family situation and home and project far into the future when making a purchasing decision.

Piano as Instrument and Furniture:

While a piano is a musical instrument, it is also one of the most significant pieces of furniture you invest in. So, consider the look of the piano so that you are happy living with it. Black pianos are the most popular, offer the easiest resale, and also are most versatile. But you should ultimately get what you like to be happy.

Intellect Versus Emotion:

While it is important to make the right decision when getting a piano, ultimately it is about satisfying aesthetics. You must not over think it. If you feel an attachment to the sound and look of a piano, it is probably the right one to get. Because then you will want to play and hear the instrument. Educate yourself as to what to look for, but ultimately make the decision based upon what you love.